MSNBC "The Ed Show" - Transcript
Interview
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SCHULTZ: Well, this shouldn`t surprise you but I don`t have a lot in common with anyone who thinks that we should get rid of public employee unions. Now, we might not agree on much but Senator Rick Santorum is not afraid to come on the program and talk about the issues and I appreciateit. The former senator from Pennsylvania joins me tonight from his home state.
Rick, I appreciate your time very much. You know, I just want some straight-talking answers. I`m not here to dun you tonight. This is not an ambush, OK? Or anything likes that. But I need -
SANTORUM: Hey, Ed. I`m packing. So don`t worry. I`m ready.
SCHULTZ: That`s good, I`m a firearms owner too, but I won`t use it here in this interview. Tax cuts for the wealthy. We`ve had tax cuts for the wealthy. Where are the jobs? Why haven`t we had the job creation that everybody wants if all the breaks have gone to the top income earners? Basic question.
SANTORUM: Yes, well, I would say that what we need to do, and this is why I propose the tax plan that I have, is to do something to create that wealth that`s being generated, as you saw in that chart, by those who are the creators, the innovators, the folks that are, you know, driving this economy. And the problem is that too many of the products that have been invented and created and by the Steve jobs of this world and others are not being made in America. So you`re not seeing the wage growth.
I talk about when I was growing up as a kid in butler, Pennsylvania, 21 percent of the workforce was involved in manufacturing. Now it`s nine. And as you know, if you want to, if you want those higher-wage jobs, then you`re going to have to do it in something that`s going to make something, that`s going to create real wealth. And so my plan is to get manufacturing going again in America.
SCHULTZ: I`m all about it.
SANTORUM: Some manufacturing jobs here - I know you are. And that`s why I think we can get bipartisan support for what I`m doing.
SCHULTZ: I just don`t hear any other Republicans talk about manufacturing whatsoever. But back to the point, you can`t raise taxes on the job creators. That`s what we hear from every Republican. Well, we haven`t rated taxes on the job creators. So where are the jobs?
SANTORUM: Well, I would say what we need to do is to be competitive in getting those jobs back to America. And if you look at what China and Indonesia and Mexico have done, they`ve created sort of sweetheart deals for manufacturers to go there. In addition to low labor rates, in addition to litigation - no litigation that`s -
SCHULTZ: But senator -
SANTORUM: In addition to regulations -
SCHULTZ: I think a fair point that needs to be made - you`re saying thesame answer again and I get that. The point that is we have given - we need money in the treasury. Now, whether we expand the tax base by
creating more jobs, we need more money in the treasury, no question. But we have given breaks. And the Republicans to a "T" say you can`t raise taxes on the job creators. Why aren`t they investing those tax breaks into American jobs? It`s easy to do. All you got to do is create something. Why aren`t they doing that?
SANTORUM: Well, obviously they invested a lot of those monies in jobs for a long time. We had three, four percent unemployment rates. So they were. But as you point out and as I agree with you, that what we need to do is create, revitalize that sector of the economy that creates real wage growth. We`ve had people stock in the bottom couple of quintiles and we need to create job growth and - excuse me - growth in wages by bringing back this manufacturing sector. So I would say that the overall policy is a good one, except that we haven`t focused on where we need to if we want to create the kind of you know wage, wage inflation, if you will, that we need to create a vibrant middle of America and that`s what my plan -
SCHULTZ: Senator, we`ve been through Reagan`s tax cuts, we have been through Bush 41, Bush 43. OK? We saw 22 million jobs created during the Clinton years. OK? So since the 1980s, OK, now we`ve got President Obama as the second democratic president. The point being here is, the economic plan for the Republicans to continually give the tax breaks to the top, can`t you admit it just hasn`t worked and we`ve got to do something different?
SANTORUM: Well, I would say that it certainly has worked in a lot of respects. I mean, we had very low rates of unemployment. We had record low rates of unemployment for quite a long time in this country until we had the catastrophe that was caused in large part by the housing industry Fannie and Freddie (ph) -
SCHULTZ: Which was deregulation, which Republicans push a lot of?
SANTORUM: No, no, it wasn`t deregulation, it was for Fannie and Freddie holding all these assets they shouldn`t have been holding then we need to have less being held by these folks. And that`s one of the - I was one of the people that sign a letter back in 2005 and six and said we better reform these two institutions or we`re going to have a meltdown, and that`s exactly what happened. So, you know part of it, part of it was government regulation and government markets that caused the bubble and caused the
loose lending practices that lent to the problems.
SCHULTZ: Well, it was deregulation that took us to where we are in the housing market, there`s no question about that, and we should have never had that regulation leave us in 1999. Finally the next thing -
SANTORUM: No, we -
SCHULTZ: You know, we keep -
SANTORUM: We had a lot of regulation that forced a lot of the folks who should not have been buying homes to get those homes -
SCHULTZ: NO, I will tell you what - I will tell you the job market, senator, what`s hurt the job market is the outsourcing of jobs. And through all of these debates -
SANTORUM: I agree.
SCHULTZ: We have not heard any Republican candidate say outsourcing in any of these -
SANTORUM: Excuse me.
SCHULTZ: That`s where America is right now.
SANTORUM: Excuse me.
SCHULTZ: And the profits at the top are going overseas.
SANTORUM: That`s what I`m talking about.
SCHULTZ: The profits are going overseas and nobody`s got a plan to bring it back. I did hear you. All right.
SANTORUM: Well, I have a plan to bring it back. And it`s to create an atmosphere in this country where manufacturers can get a good return on their investment. That`s the plan I`m putting forward.
SCHULTZ: If you were the nominee, if you were the nominee, would you run on a platform to make the Bush tax cuts permanent?
SANTORUM: Oh, absolutely. I think we just need to keep the rates - that`s pretty much. We need certainty in the environment right now.
SCHULTZ: OK.
SANTORUM: We can`t be looking at folks saying, we`re going to increase taxes on job creators.
SCHULTZ: All right.
SANTORUM: Let`s keep the tax rates where they are and focus in on one particular area, which is manufacturing. Let`s create a zero percent corporate tax on manufacturers so we can bring those jobs back here to this country, allow the folks who did -
SCHULTZ: Senator, appreciate it. You`re on that subject, there`s no doubt about it.
SANTORUM: That`s what you want me to talk about, you asked me to come here and talk about how -
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